Better Returns: Invest Like a Pro

Building Legacy Wealth: From Origin Story to Infinite Returns with Anjesh Dubey

May 23, 2023 Anjesh Dubey Episode 23
Better Returns: Invest Like a Pro
Building Legacy Wealth: From Origin Story to Infinite Returns with Anjesh Dubey
Show Notes Transcript

Join Anjesh Dubey as he shares his inspiring journey in real estate, guided by his multi-family operator grandfather. With an engineering and data analysis background Anjesh navigates the market with informed strategies, emphasizing due diligence and assembling a reliable team. His investment philosophy focuses on cash flow, low-interest long-term debt, and infinite returns. Uncover the rare art of building long-term wealth in real estate through patience and strategic thinking.


  • Anjesh has a professional background in engineering management and data analysis aiding informed investment decisions
  • Always do thorough due diligence and build a reliable team
  • Anjesh’s philosophy on investing is prioritizing cash flow or appreciation based on goals and personal preferences
  • One investment strategy includes long-term debt with low interest rates and the goal of returning capital while maintaining infinite returns
  • There is a potential for long-term wealth through holding properties
  • Cash flow is important for covering expenses and desired lifestyle while allowing property appreciation
  • Consider this approach with emphasis on patience and long-term perspective in building real estate wealth

"I make my decisions based on data...look at where the population is growing, where it makes sense to invest."

"Do not let fear stop you from your homework, make a sound decision, and go for it."

Anjesh, the Co-founder of Dubey Investor Group, has a decade of experience in real estate investing across various markets in the US. Anjesh has a portfolio of over 1,700 units valued at over $90 million. He is driven by a desire to assist high-income tech professionals in reducing taxes and increasing wealth through real estate investment.


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welcome to better returns where you will learn how to escape the volatility of the stock market by passively investing in real estate like a pro 90 of millionaires earned and maintain their wealth by investing in real estate we will share real-life examples from Savvy investors so you can do the same the show is for educational purposes only should not be considered legal tax or investment advice he drives a 22 year old Porsche and cries every winter when it goes into storage your host and my dad Matt Hansen welcome back to better returns I've got one of my friends on here and Jay Dubay he is an experienced real estate investor he is the co-founder of Dubai investor group and he's got over a decade of experience in real estate single-family home commercial real estate does it all he's got a portfolio of over 1700 units with a value of over 90 million dollars with an m welcome to the show glad to have you here thank you Matt thanks for having me here well I always like to start with what's your origin story like how did you get into real estate how did you discover this yeah that's a great question I think and I love to tell this story because uh I started and me and my wife started investing in real estate like right out of the college graduated in back in 2009 and first thing we did was invested in the real estate but I think a lot of people ask questions like why like not many people does that like start investing people look for it like either start saving or go out or enjoy and first time you start earning and uh like why why would you invest with real estate but I think then I started reflecting on it like that's a great question do I know the answer for that and then I started reflecting is that maybe it's the my our mindset what our family backgrounds have been so then I looked at it and my grandfather I realized that he was the first multi-family operator that I knew and I don't I didn't even realize it that it was actually multi-family operator because now what I know he really was yeah he had 15 unit multi-family 11 then one and he rented 14 others so I was like now I realize because I watched him growing up and he was retired he got a pension but he was like traveling he was meeting us he was he got like five other kids so he was going in different places meeting his grandkids and then traveling around in the country and I'm like how he could afford all of that and then I realized because he got this mailbox money coming in lending it into his account like every month like until and he doesn't need to have to stay anywhere and that was a lot of like society and has supported his lifestyle during until he died and that I think had a and I didn't think much of it but when I realized that that really played a role in for me in believing in the real estate was like okay he he he did it like years ago but for his retirement that was something that was supporting him so if I start doing it in years down the line that something can support myself so I didn't know any really good terminologies any technical terms cash or cash or whatever those are I was like oh I got money go take it invest in here and then we started doing it and from there we just never stopped like every few years we saved enough and then bought something either a single family the blacks or a Triplex and then we live in a high cost High tax state Bay Area right here in San Francisco so our entry points start to become challenging so like what do we do next and me and my wife talked about it I was like hey we gotta find somewhere else it's expensive here see if what people are doing outside of the area then we found out like hey there are great markets out there we just need to overcome our Fear Factor of life right start investing where it makes sense live where you want to but invest where it makes sense so then from there we just went into investing in half a dozen and more states with single families and residential homes and then whatever it makes sense to even sell it we exited some properties and we still have a good portfolio that it continued to cash flow so that's what my original mindset I think it was my grandfather who put the seed into our brain and uh from there I think it's just a mindset we didn't go anywhere real estate course yeah that's pretty rare though you had somebody in your family that was doing it at a young age you saw your grandfather and where where was that was that in California not in California so I me and my wife didn't grew up in U.S so we are immigrants here and uh we grew up in India and India in the middle class it middle class I think it doesn't invest too much into the real estate but whenever they get an opportunity and it's very hard there because they you don't get a loan so anything that you buy you'll have to just buy all cash really oh okay so in the past you don't used to get loans so people like stay for years um and then when they have enough money and then they will just buy and own it outright and that's usually the default way so uh that's what my parents said my grandfather did and then then that's why he only had like 15 unit like if he used we would use leverage then he would have more but he just bought cash over all his money that he saved and then that's what he had yeah that's pretty but it's pretty impressive certainly back in that particularly you're right in India it's not really common for an individual to do that probably mostly companies owned then multi-family in India so yeah they are the big Builder and construction companies and then they they build it and then they they sell it to either an individual owner or then they own it outright and then just rent it out yeah so these are the bigger companies so it's not common and then what's common is like maybe people inherit from their uh family and that's pretty common like like hundreds of years ago if someone owned a land or a home then it's just gonna go into the family and that's what they are gonna own their life and probably build a one another and then now they have two homes and that's what they're gonna pass on to their kids and and if they didn't lose it then that's good and then that's how the wealth grows so that's what the people in India does that's fascinating and you've you've got you know people from all sorts of backgrounds like I was a corporate executive so yeah it made sense this is easy stuff for me I used to run profit and losses I know your background lends itself really well to being successful investor and helping other people so talk a little bit about your background your professional background and how that relates to real estate yeah absolutely so I think uh I I my professional background is the Engineering Management so I've been my background has been in engineering software engineering so I'm really close to data and uh make my decision based on data get an insights from there and then into the management my role is to bring efficiency to the organization look at it here for the people grow them and then grow the organization and how we can make a create better opportunities for the business for the employees and then just have a win-win scenario so I can apply those the skill that I've been doing this for for 14 15 years so I can utilize the same skills to my investment as well right so we we make our decisions based on the data like where the population is growing in what part of the country people are migrating to where it makes sense to invest and then make a decision based on those insights and then once we acquire an asset my focus is towards building a team that is kind of property management who's going to be my broker who's gonna be my vendors out there when I need them right who's gonna be managing my tenants uh so having this strong team and then care for them at the same time so then build that trusted relationship is what I focus on more so that everyone wins along with myself and then eventually my investors and tenants as well in this process and then I submit scenario for everybody that's wonderful that's really really good so what markets are you buying in right now where where do you think the best places to are to invest in the US so I think right now the best place is to look into the uh Southeast States and Texas I feel that the population even though I slowed down a little bit but it's continued to migrate in in those States right now Florida is is a number one and in terms of migration followed by Georgia Atlanta uh and in Texas I think California has been great for so far right now uh in terms of being Silicon Valley and a tech Hub and a lot of those Industries are now moving to Texas so I'm seeing a lot of that stuff moving to San Antonio Austin Houston uh it's been Dallas has been uh like a magnet for a business and a lot of that artificial intelligence startups are starting actually in Texas so yeah and that's where I think the tech Talent is also going uh it's income Free State uh their great lifestyle like Dallas Houston these are Big Metro is right now and people are seeing opportunities there even the business and individuals so that's the data that I'm collecting and that's helping me to make the decision where should I invest next gotcha gotcha well looking back like what was your first deal and I guess what what are some of the lessons you learned because you've been you've been investing for a long time so so what what are the things that you've learned that okay you know what I probably made some mistakes and things that people could avoid any anything that you like to share yeah that the two two mistakes I think uh uh one is perform your due diligence like go deep as much as possible and do not leave it to Hope really so look at it uh when you're trying to buy like really go in the books like what's happening on that property look at it uh what what what's been the tenant class has been in the past who you are renting it to who's going to be the property manager right so like really focus on your team and build the uh really all the data that you can collect on because anywhere you miss and then it's gonna be really expensive like if you get one bad tenant it's gonna cost you a lot more and same is true with property manager one bad property manager require and then it's gonna cost a lot so there is a risk there but uh you'll have to do your performance utilizer the second side of it do not let that fear stop you from investing right so you can get like really analysis paralysis do not have that happen to you because if then then there is no reward if you take no risk right so we all know that and health you'll make a decision but make a create all that data and make a sound decision but then go for it do not do not stop from there right right yeah that's good you're right you can't just you got to take control even though it's passive investing you still need to take a look at the data and everything's as I say Google you can take a look at you know what's the crime rate what's the population growth before you're starting investing with someone else I think that's really good it's a good point you you do have to take some control now once you've made that decision yeah you can sit back and relax and exactly you know mailbox money like your your grandfather did exactly I agree it's like yeah you really do need to understand the markets even as a passive investor yeah your homework goes in before like when you before you invest like do all of your homework who is the team who is the sponsor who is the operator who is the property manager like just do your thorough due diligence on each one of them and look at that track record and then only when you feel comfortable go for it right so so have you had any any trip UPS in in your passive investing you know because I've I've shared the one I had a big one that had a capital call on it didn't lose any money I just didn't make as much money have you had any experiences and you're investing that you know that were good lessons you share yeah one passive investing that definitely so I think it was a construction project uh that uh and then it started uh but it started great and everything but then we started running into issues where the land was soft and then the construction cannot be started and so then we have to do some ground work on that and then that caused delays into the construction and so we weren't able to achieve at the time where that distribution should start coming in or the property should start getting stabilized we were way behind on on that so those kind of trip UPS can happen all the time but yeah those are the lessons learned that some stuff needs to be taken care of like if they are doing all the work or not ask questions to The Operators like hey what is it about that when it's gonna start like the even though you're passive but uh look at the monthly reports see what's going on and ask questions very good very good so what's your philosophy on investing investing strategies is it the cash flow or is the the appreciation you do you have one there because that's always a debate like okay if the cash was really good but would I rather have um so what are your thoughts on that so it's an age-old question yeah definitely I think there is no right answer it depends on to your goals right yeah right and those goals are very personalized right if I ask someone what is your goals and then based on that appreciation make more sense for the other person they might be cash flow they are not want to play a risky or something right they are risk hours so it depends on the person to person so I would say Define your goals first what are those like what is it that you want to achieve like looking for from this investment like yes it may as well to just keep that cash in your bank because if that gives you the Peace of Mind do that because it can be an emotional emotional uh commitment right and if that's that if investing with someone else causes you to not being able to sleep at night don't do it right get yourself comfortable um Define your goals and if you think that makes a right right thing for me go for it right and and then from there build it with your wealth uh I would say that right now in the current environment what we are looking for is definitely cash flow because we have seen appreciation we may not see that a kind of appreciation for a long time now because what was being available to us with a low interest rate that may not happen in the next five six or ten years so right now what I am focusing on is long-term debt depth at a low interest rate whatever I can get as a fixed uh keep it long time 10 years and just lock it in and make sure that it cash flows Break Even property can pay for itself and just keep it 10 years plus and whenever the opportunity strikes will be finalized and written all the capital to the investors and then keep the investors in the deal even though their capital is returned and now they can just bring an owner and then whatever it it flows through you it's Gonna Give You infinite returns because you have no Capital invested in there so that's some model that I'm looking forward going to see if that's going to work out so I think that's something investors should also look for yeah there's not many of those out there it's the infinite return so yeah at a certain point you've increased the value so much you can basically take the investors out or or get back all their money and now it's just it's just a hundred percent returns exactly but other people doing that in the industry uh you know most most of us are big syndicators and you know we're going to turn that as quick as possible if you encountered somebody that's doing that yeah I've seen only one one model so far who has started doing this but you are right that not many people but I feel that a lot of people should start looking into that direction because if you look at it real estate if how does it build wealth if you if you look at it where did you grow up like the house that you grew up and look at what's the value it has right now and at what price your dad or your grandfather bought it for right so the value is always in keeping in a really long term 10 years plus and that's where the real wealth gets welded like cash flow is necessary so that you are not paying into it from your pocket every day so that you can have the life you want and then that business and that property just can pay for itself but I think keeping a long time is something that I'm trying to focus more on X excellent so let's talk a little bit more about that because this is interesting because I I hear people talk about it but nobody's really done it so how would you you say over the court so you get a loan what do you get a usually it's five or six year loans you'd have to get a longer loan at the beginning are you talking about refinancing after you've had it for a while if the values appreciated enough that you can refinance and pull all the money out that's the plan so how would that timeline look like play that out for me because nobody's really done it to play it out what do you think so here is what my I think it is like buy it right now today I get a seven year or a ten year fixed rate on it uh whatever it is it will kind of come up with some prepayment uh penalty hopefully with a five-year prepayment penalty is gonna go off I want to hold it for long term so let's say at seven EF vd5 and we are gonna cash flow to seven year uh whatever cash flow is going to bring in it's gonna be smart like one two percent three percent and then we're gonna keep returning it to the investors and that will be like returning of the capital and not like a cash flow as like a dividend so so one percent to three percent every year by year seven so around 20 will probably be returned by that time the return of the capital yeah so 14 to 20 percent now at year 7 pd5 and the property value would have grown by uh 1.7 to 1.8 times and from there and then VD Phi at a 70 LTV now what we have returned let's say 14 to 20 Capital back to the uh already now at a V5 we target 60 to 80 percent of the return of that capital on that tree file again okay now 100 of the capital is returned but all the investors are still in the deal they are not exited and now if the property cash flows or even break even at the refi now you keep it for another three to five years any new money that's going to come in is an infinite return because you have no money on the deal now at 10 year or a 12 year mark you exit from the deal and now whatever the equity that it has built or appreciation it has built in the last five to seven years uh it's gonna be an infinite gain to you and it's all you can tell 31 or just invest it further so you can depart it from the tax perspective so it's gonna return really into a 2X plus multiplier at the end of uh uh 10-year time timeline the only the only concern I would have is do you have to have a capital um expenditure to remodel if you're because typically hold for six years is our typical business we've been turning things quicker than that just because the market is hot but I know you're right it's better to hang on to it longer but if you're holding it for 10 12 or 15 years are you going to have to remodel at some point maybe at year eight and where would you get the cash to do that would you do that to refi when you refi to explain how you'd pull that off yeah that's a great question so at a refi I think we will keep some Capital uh if let's say we are returning it to the cat to the investors we keep some portion of that into the deal to be able to uh spend on the capital expenditures because if we see that if we do that then the property valuation is going to increase even further and it just makes sense to do it and now we have the money also from the refinance so that then that means that the return of capital will decrease a little bit so instead of 100 probably achieve only 80 of it which is fine then they have only 20 of the capital in the deal but they have 100 of the ownership uh still so that's still a win-win for the investor so that's how uh it can be played out yeah I I want to see somebody do that I think it's a great idea and I think a lot of people would like that because we we do have investors when we turn something in 24 or 32 months like okay now I've got a cat now I've got to pay taxes on that and I've got to find something else to do it or roll it into something else that I I know I hear people talking about all the time including yourself and I've even thought about there's like you said you've ran across one person that's done it well yeah maybe the environment might might motivate people to say you know what we should probably be doing this because it may be a six year because all investors I talk to now they've seen us do these two and three year returns like full cycle on a deal exactly tell everybody plan on six years plan on the full six so I've kind of set expectations realistically and even you're right 15 is even better so yeah I think we need to I think we need to keep looking at that it's about resetting the expectations of everyone like like syndicators um investors because people we have one able to exit the deals much earlier but in the current environment it may not be possible so that's the realistic expectations and then go with the long-term Horizon mindset and I think everyone will come out as a winner and that's an idea yes I love it I love it that's really refreshing because I've heard a few people talk about it but I I think you're one you're the one to make it happen I I plan to do that yes good well well you know what we're friends I'll be alongside you there I'm I'm interested

well we've come to the time we're going to do the lightning round

are you ready let's do it that's right okay here we go five questions as a nickname or I'm sorry as a child what was your nickname did you have a nickname I did uh not a formal one but not everyone called me but some of my friends and my mom used to call me Angie Angie yeah very good good number two morning person or night owl night owl yeah that's why we're friends yes good answer good answer now what about your wife uh she is Night Owl as well good that that works out really well because my wife and I are the same way the win there's a win number three what would be the first thing you do if you won the lottery I won the lottery I'll buy more real estate

quit your job uh I probably or at least a decrease by some amount yes I still love my job what I'm doing I like coaching people and growing people and help them so I love that but I probably agrees it a little better so that I can focus on on other stuff as well well you've already got I mean you've already got real estate is something else you could do so you're not going to sit around and eat bon bons on the couch watching you know right you would have something to do so that's to do exactly number four if you could live anywhere in the world where would it be oh I would live in probably Miami oh Miami really yeah I've been I've visited there have you visited much there yeah yeah I did yeah so why what do you like about Miami uh good good weather a good state a lot of business friendly States a good it has a Vibe of everything uh some Scenic water uh weather is nice and then also it routes to other areas like Bahamas you can go to you can take a cruise to different different places so it's just really nice I've been to Miami but it's only to go through the port to go to Croatia cruises probably been there six seven times but I've never really spent any time there but I think it's a nice city you're good yeah and the number five um what's one piece of advice the Golden Nugget you would give to new investors to help them get better returns was the one piece of information for a new passive investor I would say that continuously uh educating yourself is very necessary in the current environment so don't let all the news headlines or everything stop you from being able to achieve what you want to go so write down your goals and how you want to achieve it and then just educate yourself and then take a step don't don't sit on the sidelines just a small steps every day but make it take it and be consistent about it and then when you will be able to see your goals of being fruitful the next duration yeah excellent excellent advice thanks so much for sharing and I'm looking forward to that 10 to 15 year um investment plan that you have for the next apartment absolutely absolutely thanks for being on the show I truly appreciate it thank you so much Matt for having me here I really appreciate it thank you and that's a wrap thank you for listening to better returns brought to you by Hanson Holdings if you enjoyed this episode please leave a five star review because it helps others discover this valuable content if you would like to earn truly hands-off passive income go to where we help you invest in large apartment complexes to grow your family's wealth see you next week with another awesome episode have a great day