Don’t just “wine” about it - invest! In this week’s episode, Keeley shares her fascinating endeavor of starting a vineyard and how it will impact the wine industry. Don’t miss hearing about this unique alternative investment opportunity — the juice is definitely worth the squeeze.
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ABOUT KEELEY HUBBARD
Keeley Hubbard is a Managing Partner of Hubbard Capital Group and runs her real estate business with her fantastic father, Tracy. She is passionate about helping people gain financial peace of mind through unique investments like multifamily and Texas vineyards.
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Welcome to the show Keeley I'd like to start with your origin story how did you get involved in investing in real estate yeah well thank you for having me Matt I've been excited about this um you know I came from the corporate world I was built a sales career but in sales for 18 years uh it was VP of sales at a international organization that I you know really built a fantastic career at just got tired of building somebody else's Empire though so I left I quit start my own consulting firm that I still run today I'm a sales coach for business owners but at that time my dad was getting out of the financial markets you know I was on the financial education side of the industry he was actually trading the markets and managing money as a small hedge fund manager uh Forex Futures options stocks you name it he was trading and many of you know you know what's been going on with the financial markets but he just got tired of not being able to achieve the same returns that our investors were used to getting so he told me he's like Kelly I'm moving into hard assets we're getting into real estate do you want to go into business with me and Matt you know my dad I was like how heck yeah I'm in right like it's amazing chance to to be in business with my father so we started that Journey back in 2017 2018 and got into multi-family started buying large apartment complexes and uh soon after that got into agriculture so we're doing Texas Vineyards and uh ground up ground up development of Texas Vineyards in the high plains ABA of Texas so that's how we got where we are today that's fascinating so you were also ultimately successful as a business executive and then you decided okay we're gonna we're gonna do something different now you did multi-family and now you're kind of morphing into which are adjacent Real Estate Vineyards it's real estate still you're just adding some new stuff so let's talk a little bit about that like what does it look like because it's probably new to everyone it's new to me a year ago when you first introduced it to me and of course I was convinced it was a great great investment to diversify my portfolio outside of just real estate really yeah you know it is it is realistic because it's land so a lot of people um I make sure I clarify because like are you doing wineries it's like no we're we're just growing grapes and the word Vineyard is a nice marketing term for being a great farmer that's literally what we're doing is we are growing wine grapes and we are selling the grapes or crushing it and selling the juice to the wineries that's where the biggest opportunity is here in the state of Texas a lot of people don't realize that Texas is actually the fifth largest wine grape growing state in the U.S pretty big Market here for wine consumption it's about a 13.1.2 billion dollar impact billion billion with a B so it's a big big wine market in Texas but it's all consumed in state and you'll never see a Texas wine you know in a grocery store in San Diego because there's not enough grapes that's the problem is the wine demand is dramatically outpacing the wine grape Supply so we're only producing about 50 of the grapes that we need to hit today's wine and it continues to grow and expand so that's where we saw this fabulous opportunity connected with a partner a Vineyard partner that they run the only fully mechanized Vineyard here in Texas so it's you know Texas is kind of outdated when it comes to their Vineyards and their operations it's a lot of hand labor we're not as sophisticated as y'all out there in California Matt but a lot of Texas farmers are just kind of old school but to give you an example of you know at scale how this impacts your profits and obviously investor returns a Vineyard of our size of what we're building is about 350 Acres we are we can run an operation of that size with three three people that's it three people heavy machinery we are you know mechanized when it comes to pruning harvesting you know spraying all of those things we can use tractors and about three people and a Vineyard of that same size for all the other you know farms and Texas would take about 80 to 100 hand laborers in the vineyard to do that it's also a slower response time if you need to get out there and you know prune back your canopy to get more sunlight to the grapes it takes a while so we're doing it like California how California operates but because of that we've got a lot higher profit margins better returns for our investors because we're doing it at scale but um yeah high level that that's what we're up to here in Texas oh that's it's impressive the fact is it it's the carbon footprint thing you've the demand is so strong in Texas for wines that you don't need to export it to another state if you will it just can be consumed right there which is great because now we're not putting stuff on you know trains planes and Automobiles to ship them to Texas to turn into wine that's I didn't realize that that's really good added and the other thing that is the technology I saw a picture of this tractor and it's like half a million dollar tractor isn't that what it is yeah yeah imagine technology yeah yeah and you know our our grapes are actually they're coming from California what we're not able to here in Texas to keep up with the wine demand our wineries are having to bring in grapes from California which carry a lot of additional cost and risk to bring the juice here and you know plus if you've ever met an obnoxious Texan if you haven't I'll be your first one but we don't like it when it's not Texas right don't call it a Texas wine unless it's got Texas grapes and so a lot of the wineries are wanting to label their wines Texas but they won't until you know they can fill the the grape the grape supply problem so that's another Advantage for us there's actually some of the biggest wineries that we've been talking to would love to take one of their wines National and that's kind of their vision for the future so a lot of those large wineries are part of our operational plan you know over the next couple decades that would be an ultimate goal of ours but the first one is just to fill the supply Gap that's currently happening right now what percent of Texas grown grapes are required to call it a Texas wine great question uh 75 percent yeah wow yeah 75 so it's been a real challenge for a lot of wineries there's also some of the larger wineries the biggest ones in Texas will not label it unless it's 100 of the grapes are coming from Texas so you know they've been pushing to change the legislature but they won't until there's more grapes being produced in Texas so that's where we come in we're going to be putting about 3 500 tons of grapes into the market every year with each of our Vineyard blocks and right now Texas is only producing about 14 000 tons of wine grapes the need is 28 000. wow so we're going to be bringing another 3 500 tons per Vineyard block uh into the market so we've got two they're getting planted right now so that'll bring another seven thousand so we'll be the largest Vineyard operator and control more than 50 of the grape Supply here in the next five years wow that's impressive that's really good exciting so when I saw pictures of this and it is it looks like they've got um all of the I'm going to use the room the term wrong seedlings or whatever what are they called yeah the in The Green Room yeah Greenhouse in the greenhouse the vines in the greenhouse it was like hundreds of thousands of them I think yeah somebody mainly prunes those until they're planted in the spring they do and we pay for that you know we pay for the nursery to prune them but yeah 240 000 individual Vines um to plant one Vineyard block so in one Vineyard block is you know three 350 Acres so let's talk walk through the business plan at a high level because again this is new to everybody so you've acquired the land like so I'm in the second block I'm investing in the second block you've already done one that you've last year you started so and these are just basically new how you want to phrase it new lots of land really in a new investment base so this you know these wines are a little bit different than the separate from the black one but you have different variety you know Verity what is it called Bridal varietals that was a new word to me too varietals there's how many varietals do we have in our block 12 to 14 in each Vineyard block and those wine varietals so like a varietal example would be tempranio right that's a certain type of grape another varietal would be cab saw which is what Cabernet Sauvignon which is most people are familiar with uh vermintina we do a lot of Reds here in Texas they do really well and they also sell for more per uh per ton than whites do so we've got a balance of that right we make sure that we've got plenty of Reds in there but there's usually 12 to 14 varietals in each Vineyard block and it's all based on the soil type in that plot of land so we just closed on 386 acres of land for Block two The Vineyard block that you're invested in and we run due diligence in this space is you know you do due diligence in multi-family you do the same thing here it's a little bit different we dig soil pits so we dig about four feet down and six to eight feet across and we do about probably seven or eight of those across the property these big soil pits and we run soil analysis so the soil could and the water quality could be different and these 40 acres compared to the 60 Acres adjacent to it so we've literally plant the varietals based on the soil type across that plot of land so it's very much a scientific approach and very meticulous when it comes to choosing varietals oh so you maximize the productivity so yeah 300 acres a big piece of land so in this area this this variety will grow better than other areas so you optimize the product production of the Great rates then by doing that yeah we even layer on top of that the rootstock type as well to make sure that it will grow well in that soil type so there's there's a lot a lot that goes into it in a good way okay so so we've got the land we've got the seedlings or the The Vines um so let's walk us through block two in the spring what happens these these be planted and what goes on what's the rest of the business plan from there yeah so well right now um as you know we did our investor webinar last night we've got a cover crop that we're putting in and we'll cover crop on block one sometimes you put cover crop in to keep the like high winds that would come in and just kind of erode the soil it just helps keep the soil moist it makes it great for when we start to you know really get ready to start putting the vines in the ground but we'll do land prep for the next you know four to five months or so make sure everything's super flat the soil's been tilled up um and it's got plenty of moisture we're gonna turn over a lot of the wells so we buy the Wells on the property properties that already have wells in place we typically will um I don't know what you call it's like Renovations and multi-family but we tweak them operationally to make sure that they can pump out enough water so each of our wells fun fact will push out about 800 gallons per minute that's the you know the I guess you call it the RPMs of a of a well but we usually have seven to eight Wells on each Vineyard block and those can be controlled from our Vineyard operator's phone they can control the water that uh that had built to the vineyard yeah to each block specifically I mean we can control the water amount so the irrigation all of that will get put in the vines will actually come in from California they're in the nursery growing and they will come in from California around may mid-may we wait until the risk of frost is kind of gone and we've winter and then those Vines will get planted in the ground and there's 240 000 of them so Vineyard installation will take a few weeks to to get everything in the ground and then every single Vine gets a little Vine shelter that uh that goes around it's like a little plastic picture like a PVC pipe that goes in around it and then 240 000 T posts uh will get put in as well and just for kind of a visual the the steel that's coming in for the amount of t-post it usually takes about 48 to 50 18 wheeler loads that drop off Steel so it's quite the production to get everything to the site um and get ready for installation so we are going to be incredibly busy in May uh installing installing that Vineyard block and then the the thing about the t t stakes and their metal is that it allows you to do the automated using this piece of equipment versus 80 individuals going out there and working you've got a piece of equipment three people run the whole Farm yeah it's a different type of trellising there's um what a lot of the farmers in Texas are using is old school and there's nothing wrong with it it's a great way to grow a Vineyard but it's called VSP it stands for stands for vertical shoot position but it it will typically grow your Vineyard like a hedge so picture you know a head that's three to four feet tall and the grapes you know the fruit is hanging in that hedge what we do is high wire trellising and so it's just one long line of grape hanging underneath the canopy of those leaves and because of that when our machines go through there our mechanisms are not getting caught up in the wire like they would with a hedge versus what's called high wires so it does allow you to to use machines and it also you can hang more fruit on these types of trellising you know most Texas farmers are only producing one to maybe four tons of grapes per acre we'll be pushing about 12 to 15 tons of grapes based just based on the design use the technology in the the optimal design to produce them on most amount of grapes yes and all of the science that goes into it and the varietals and what's their maximum capacity of how much fruit they can hang and yeah it's impressive it makes me feel better the more we talk about it I was comfortable to begin with but but as you really get into you realize this is just as complicated as anything else in terms of investing and making sure you have a really strong Opera like Mason your your biologist and your farmer guy he is this phenomenal he's so excited to talk about it too it's just a blast to listen to oh oh and every time I hear him talk I learn something about grape farming and the science behind it and the root stocks that we select and the sunlight and the minerals I mean it's it's fascinating yes and so the projections for demand is super strong for this you know that you've picked out the soils and everything um to optimize a production we're automating everything so what is the like to an impassive investor what is the time frame of this investment it's longer right so where you
decades so I say a few maybe two and a half decades but Vines are not an annual crop so you plant them once and they will grow and produce fruit for 25 years so that is the draw to a lot of investors is they like the passive income for 25 years the only caveat of that is you don't get fruit the first year when you plant The Vines so we spend the first four years training those Vines obviously getting them in the ground and just training those Vines up to the high wire building a really strong Woodstock and then we come out of the gate um really fast and quick in year five producing you know 12 to 15 Tons we'll get we'll get fruit in year three but we don't sell it we just do a lot of lab testing on it we will sell the fruit in year four but we really hold the vines back from Full production just from you know all the kind of inputs we talked about sunlight minerals and just managing the canopy but we'll hold the fruit back for maybe three three to four tons an acre to make sure our Woodstock is is really strong so we can really produce at a high level for years five through uh 25 is how long they'll last so it's passive returns for you know 20 plus years that's incredible there's nothing else out there like this that I've heard about somebody was like it's like an annuity I'm like yeah but better so once it's mature so say five year year five is when it's really is there a Max is like 14 year 14 it is producing the most amount or is it once you hit five years or once it's matured it's going to consistently perform and produce the same amount for the next 20. it will consistently perform and produce that but it's a lot of us managing it scientifically Vineyards naturally want to kind of do boom and bust Cycles they want to you know come out of the gate really hot this year and the next year they want to take a year off so it's you know up to us to manage the vineyard from a scientific approach what the minerals we're using the sunlight they're getting we have Consultants that we work with that are both texas-based and California based to make sure that we're producing at the levels we need to plus you know a lot of the varietals their maximum production could be 18 tons and our Pro former is only at 12. like we're not going to push them to 18. we might push them to 12. they will get tired they'll start to get tired around years 22 depending on the varietal and we just watch them and once the yields starts to drop so say that this you know varietal of cab Saab has been producing you know say 11 tons per acre for 20 something years and it's year 22 and we see it Harvest that we're only getting eight tons per acre we're like okay this one's starting to get tired so we have a contingency fund where for basically for those 20 years we've set aside profits from Harvest every single year that contingency fund is worth about five and a half million around year 20. and so we have this pile of cash that we're then going to pull from and say let's replant these 30 Acres that way we're not wiping out the whole Vineyard at once and replanting we'll strategically replant over five to seven years oh this is Cash reserved but you need but you've self-imposed cash Reserve no multi-family a bank will require you you need to hold back a million or two million well you guys are doing this yourself because you're thinking about I've got a I've got a um you know renovate these if you will in 20 years yes and you know my dad well enough to know that all that's not just going to sit in cash he'll put it to work so we anticipate it being more than that but we'll see it'll at least be about five and a half million around year 20. that's outstanding that's outstanding and another question somebody asked last night on our in your webinar and you do a great job communicating I feel I always know exactly what's going on with my Vineyard money which is great my wife will ask well how's it been here and I always know because you're you're on top of it your webinars are always so fun you're you're thank you meetings are always so fun um somebody asked that okay we're planning all these 25 250 000 whatever fines in the spring what's the success rate what's or what how many of those don't live what does that look like and how do you handle that yeah I mean our in our pro forma we have a 90 take you know or a 10 death rate on the vines if you just put them in the ground and they don't make it um but we'll typically see an average of the vineyard it's usually 97 to 98 percent and the great thing about where we're ordering these Vines from is if that happened you know like Mason mentioned in our in our webinar last night if that for some reason happens and we can see a kind of a string of 15 vines that just never took they will send us new ones and those will get put in the ground and replaced in year two so for the most part we have a really good uh really good take on planting you've got a contingency plan that okay we're just going to replace it and early in the early years it's really good it's when like at year 15 if some die off then you're going to have these really off okay I got a brand new plant here with a 15 year old Vines next to it yeah and you'll see that occasionally you'll see that sometimes but um for the most part it's it's not too bad of a death rate which sounds horrible right at death rate for Vines let's call it uh um what is it a vacancy rate let's call it the vacancy rate I think it's rates about 10 Max yeah yeah it's not as aggressive as a death rate yes yeah that's good and then let's talk a little about from an investing standpoint in apartments you've got the big depreciation and all that what do you guys do from a tax standpoint how is it a tax advantage yeah people are shocked to hear this but we actually run cost segregation on it just like we would in multi-family there's a ton of tax benefits we can depreciate you know you can't depreciate raw land but we can depreciate the steel The Vines we can appreciate our equipment we can actually depreciate the aquifer that the land sits on top of which is our water source because we own our water rights in Texas so we're looking at you know for a year one tax benefit even with bonus depreciation dropping to 80 in uh 2023 we're still looking at about a 42 percent year one tax benefit so in about 78 overall is what we're right now seeing we're going to continue to work with some CPAs and consultants and make sure we're taking advantage of all that but great you know great tax benefits and the other thing that's similar in the multi-family space is we do have a capital event in our pro forma we've got a targeted refinance refi year at year eight so you know our refi Pro Form is eight percent so if we're for some reason in a crazy interest rate environment uh 10 let's hope not I'm sure people that are listening are like I hope not but if we were if we were we didn't refinance we'd still we'd still do about 21 to 22 per year return for investors even without the refi but if we do the refi if we're anywhere between less than eight percent we um will return quite a bit of capital back to investors and just basically pull that Equity out of the vineyard put new debt on it and it will still continue to cash flow about 16 per year even after the refi so we've got options which is good that's incredible those are incredible returns but you have to be patient you know all everything in real estate it's not it's not get rich quick it's getting slow you know and and vineyard's definitely the slow portion of it but then but I like that because like I've just had um a deal that I passively invested years ago to sell now I've got some more money I've got a I've got a fair what I'm gonna do with it yeah it's almost an I and we hear this a lot of investors like well I just want to put something and let it sit there for 20 years not every four or five or six years I gotta figure what I got to do that I got to reinvest it and that's the beautiful part of this is like I just said it forget it you guys take care of all the management of it all I get to listen to your fun updates on it you know and and I'm gonna reap the profits over 20 some years I mean where else can you do that I know it's crazy and that's that is one of the reasons we named the brand Texas Legacy Vines is not just the Legacy that we're building in Texas because there's um there's some wine makers the largest wineries in Texas that kind of got teary-eyed when we told them what we were doing they said we've been waiting for this that want to take their wine National and so we're like we're building a legacy here in Texas but we're also helping other families build theirs at the same time so it really means a lot to us this has been definitely a passion project and we just feel really grateful to to be doing it I mean it's exciting you can see the excitement just from our webinar last night we love talking about it um it's been a lot of fun well that's investors are really excited so here's another thing like somebody to ask I think Tony our buddy Tony said can we track these wines so we we produce the grapes here and then they go they're sold to somebody so can we track our wines are we able to take this and buy this at the Myers in in Michigan hey this is where this this Vineyard came from this vintage came from yeah you know it probably to get out of state we're gonna have to fill the current Supply Gap here and then decide if we're but you know we have had conversations with one of the largest wineries here in Texas and possibly planning Out Future Vineyard blocks just to supply their desire and goal to take a wine National so we've we've got plans for that we're pretty excited about but yes we will track it I had um last night I mentioned that I love the Semion wine that great because Mason We did an investor party uh one of our investors homes like maybe a year and a half ago and he brought a red and a white from his Vineyard right wines that were made from the grapes at his Vineyard and the Simeon was so good and you could see on the back of it it said you know from Canon County Vineyards so we do plan on like some some of those wineries are proud of that they want to you know to put your name on it so we definitely plan on on tracking those bottles and maybe even create our own little private line of wine right I don't think you won't have no problems getting investors for that I think no no they'll love it I don't first write a refuse on those as a curtains roster I want to be able to be on the short list for that one you know my dad and his uh his dad jokes but we were gonna put on the bottle this juice is worth the squeeze a long time to get it but this juice is worth the squeeze is and it's great I didn't realize it so uh Texas Legacy that's what it is Texas Texas Legacy mines you're actually helping the the industry in Texas by kind of being on The Cutting Edge doing these huge plots automating it and then helping position it in the marketplace and and allow them to produce more wine I didn't realize that it does a wider spread impact of than just your your one Farm is you're helping the whole industry there yeah I mean we've we've kind of flown under the radar for the last year and a half we wanted to right because we didn't want um our land cost to go up a whole lot and there's already rumors kind of squirreling around about what you guys are you know there's a billionaire out here buying acreage we're not billionaires but you know we are buying a lot of acreage out there so they're excited about it um I think that it will like you said it's going to help them kind of bridge the gap and create new wine lines they've been wanting to create expand their business we we definitely plan on getting involved in more pieces of the supply chain for uh for wine one of them is crushing the crushing facility so Mason and his family have their own custom Crush facility those Crush facilities are running around the clock during harvest in Texas because there's not enough of them so we our next step is to start building out Crush facilities just to manage our own Harvest for our for our Winery clients so that'll give us an edge as well over uh over other Vineyards forward integrating not only making this you're getting farther down in the processing thing yes adds value everything you do like that adds value and if you can create a margin there that's great yeah fascinating stuff like I'm all in a Vineyard so you guys know that and I think it's great to expose people to this there's other options out there even other than you know just multi-family which we think is fabulous and I know you do as well but this is a great opportunity to diversify within that we certainly did so yeah sharing all that of course I feel like the the multi-family World um that's probably a bad way to say it but it's like the gateway drug into specialized investing right like once you get into multi-family like this whole world opens up of all these cool Investments that nobody knew was possible so I just love that idea of getting moving money out of Wall Street moving it to Main Street and really giving investors options that can truly help them achieve their financial goals so there's so many options out there vineyard's being one of them but multi-family being a staple for sure yeah vineyard's certainly only the ultra wealthy and those are people that had enough like you said the billionaires that yeah I bought a whole Vineyard in California those are the only people that were owners of those now it's people like you and I can can be an investor in those and part owners that's great I love it well now's the time for our lightning round
okay should I be scared be a little bit nervous Gilly there's just five fun questions to get to know you a little bit better okay are you ready I'm ready this is going to be interesting because I know your family pretty well what was your nickname as a child oh it came from my grandma and it's twinkle I know I know yes it fits it's your twinkling personality thank you I love it still calls me Twinkle today
number two are you a morning person or a night owl I'm a night owl I've tried to be a morning person I've read you know how El Rod Elrod's books you know I can't it just maybe I could but it's just not me I stay up late I get these bursts of creativity at 2AM and I'm up all night sometimes so it's just I gotta roll with what my body's telling me thank you me too and I've tried and I've got Hal's book on my thing I tried and tried throughout the years I just can't so I know what you're saying it's our natural tendencies not to be a morning yeah and I like a slow morning like I want to read I want to drink my coffee and read a book for like an hour and a half I don't want to like rush rush rush you know I did all that in the corporate world so I my mornings are so precious to me because three to four hours I'll luxuriate before I actually get to get to work and that's important I think it makes it easier I've seen pictures of you on your balcony with your cute little dog having coffee I think on social media because we're friends yeah so I do I can picture what you just said right there I love that I love that number three what's the first thing you do if you won the lottery oh the first thing came to mind was my family like I would you know probably do a cash infusion into my sister and brother-in-law's business it's called goats on the go and they literally rent out goats for vegetation management at ranches um I would probably buy I would say buy my parents a house they don't want that my dad would want land I'd probably find a couple thousand acres and just buy him more land and put a cattle operation on it uh everything's for my family I can't really think of stuff that I want for myself it's always been you know about my family there's a lot more joy I think in that I agree that's wonderful yeah number four if you could live anywhere in the world where would that be Texas no hesitation Texas I'm where I'd live I know people are like there's so many other pretty places in the world and there are and I think I would love to visit there but I'm a Seventh Generation Texan and this is where my heart is and this is where I'm staying the rest of my life that's great that's great that's that is wonderful and then the final question is what's one piece of advice you give to new investors to help them get better return one key nugget cute one key nugget um I would say really get to know your operators because any any business like any business plan can look good on paper underwriting anybody can change numbers in a spreadsheet but when you're investing it's not so much in the deal itself you're investing in the operator the operator like when people are investing with you Matt it's not about the multi-family deal they're like I trust you and I trust you to keep your word I trust you to come through I trust you always make the best decisions no matter what curveballs happen because they do there are always curveballs in investing but people trust your leadership and your ability to execute a business plan and take care of people to the best of your ability and protect their money so it is always about the person you're investing with more than the investment itself mic drop that was so good I I fully agree well um I do want to talk a little bit more about some of the other things you're doing and how people get a hold of you again you're you're a sales coach you know your your Niche is really women business owners but you help people like me too all the time I mean you've got your Weekly Newsletter that I get nuggets out like to remember to use the gifts in Communications to keep things light and fun I mean I always get something out of it so tell us a little bit about what you do there as well in addition to your your opinions and multi-family I mean my passion I'll never stop sales coaching because it I really feel like it's my gift that God's giving me given me in my life just like that's why I left corporate was I the further I climbed that corporate ladder I got further away from my passion which was seeing a direct impact on my sales team and my sales people so my passion now is helping business owners most business owners that sales skill is the missing component to Growing their business and they avoid it because they hate it and they feel it feels so like I don't want to be pushy or aggressive and my Approach is the opposite of that and I found way to sell and broke records and built an incredible career and generated over 900 million in revenue from being authentic and my clients were raving fans at the end of it so if I can teach that to other business owners and make them feel like okay I can survive like I cannot just survive my business but continue to grow it and really Thrive that's what brings me joy so it is my passion passion business so I hope a lot of women a lot of women business owners started doing some corporate sales trainings as well I coached some in the real estate space for raising Capital but yeah I mean you can find me on any social media platform shoot me a message like I'd love to connect I get a lot of messages from doing podcast interviews like this um but yeah any social media Outlet you can find me there excellent excellent thanks so much I appreciate it and in your contact information will be in the show notes um Hubbard Hubbard Capital yes Capital group and all that and you're out on the social so I do recommend people follow you some great content and you really are helping people the small business owners don't have the billion dollar budgets That Wall Street does to advertise that's why people don't know about this stuff that's why it's great that you're helping those people get the message out you know to to help people uh you know gain Financial Freedom so we're in we're in an impact business this is not just about making money it really is about transforming lives and how people feel about themselves and their future so there's a lot at stake and a lot of responsibility but I think we're both grateful to have that on our back we are and you do fabulous at it thanks so much for your time today Kaylee as as usual it's a pleasure we always have a blast chatting I'm honored Matt seriously thank you for having me on