Better Returns: Invest Like a Pro

3. Leave it to the Pros to Maximize Profits with Luke Leins

November 27, 2022 Luke Leins Episode 3
Better Returns: Invest Like a Pro
3. Leave it to the Pros to Maximize Profits with Luke Leins
Show Notes Transcript

Unravel the mystery of how we decide the profitability of an apartment investment. In this episode, Matt and Luke use an apartment deal under contract as a case study to demonstrate the value of a property management company.


  • Luke’s company, ResProp Management, is using technology to provide more advanced property management services.
  • In addition to your own due diligence, it’s best to have a property management company assess the deal because they have more access to data than your average investor.
  • Your property management company should thoroughly evaluate all ways to increase cash flow.
  • Due diligence from your property management should be strong and include a full walk through of every unit — taking inventory, doing a full lease audit, looking at financials and getting quotes from service providers.
  • ResProp has about 15 people that work on each deal: procurement, accounting, marketing, construction, staff interviews, etc. They also do a lot of pre-sourcing and relationship building with vendors so there are no delays in renovations.
  • The property management company should work closely with the deal’s asset manager to make sure the business plan is staying on track.
  • Luke explains his search for good investments and finding apartment buildings to be the best for his financial goals.

“We know we have firm bids. We have all our vendors out there. We've got estimates. We know exactly what the capital requirements are with the deal.”

“It's like, man, if you can find a good sponsor that you really trust and do deals with, you can do really well. So, it's been a lot of fun seeing that.”

Luke Leins is a Senior Director at ResProp Management and oversees Third Party Management growth and expansion in the Florida market. Luke's background includes development, acquisitions, private-equity raising, and third-party management. Luke's strategic approach is to partner with ownership groups looking to develop multifamily portfolios by assisting with deal sourcing, underwriting, capital planning, and market research. He also works on strategic management changes to maximize property values for owners. Luke holds a BSBA from Colorado State University and is a Certified Commercial Investment Member (CCIM) and Accredited Investment Fiduciary (AIF).


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Welcome to the show I'm very happy to have a guest here that I think the world of is with one of our our property manager primary property manager Luke Lyons from res prop management again a Premier Property Management company that we love the managing our Florida properties right now then do a stellar job so welcome to the show Luke good afternoon good to see you again well tell us a little bit about your background uh I'll I'll promote you guys first off uh you manage probably a couple thousand units of our my mine and my friends at least you've got about two billion dollars I think of assets under management you're focused in Texas and Florida I think South Carolina is that correct yeah so so the the two billion is I guess going back our company was founded as a vertically integrated deal shop in 2010. so at our Peak as an owner we had about two billion dollars of assets under management wow what we did in college 2018 is we decided we're going to pull back the deal shop and focus on two things uh Tech investments in multi-family so we're actually launching right now I want to say it's 11 in-house prop tech companies so that's where a lot of our capital is is investing and then the other side of it was in the fee management and the thesis was being an investor was great for us building Tech and scaling the third party is going to be great for the industry that did so much for our company over the course of three funds and a lot of a lot of money under management um so that's really been the goal from 2018-2019 is ramping up a few Management in the tech and it's been it's a different ball game but it's been a lot of fun we get to work with a lot of different kinds of investor and Shop um so yeah it's been great well that's great and you have the natural built-in you've got all these clients or these assets you manage you can test things out to make sure okay it works I'm sure you do pilot programs on individual assets and things like that and expand that's wonderful because Tech is so important it really is it's all about managing the Assets in more efficient and effective it is the more profitable it is and the better the tenants are taken care of so I love that I didn't realize you guys were you did that as well we just know you and love you as our great property manager so yeah and then you know as a property manager we do reap a lot of the the benefits of having the the tech arm in our company we have about 200 employees in our Austin office we need our headquarters to Austin in the middle of covid um and probably half of them are corporate res prop on the other half are startup Tech Talent so having those people in the office with us we're able to do a lot of things very quickly read our own programs and code um so yeah that's a advantage of having uh all the tech guys sitting next door to you yeah that's good well res prop is the secret sauce to the success of a lot of our deals the ones in Florida that you guys are managing for is phenomenal so what I want to do today is we we've got a property called Magnolia Point apartments in Jacksonville Florida that res prop is managing for us so it's we're still going through the acquisition phase so what I'd like to use is this is a case study to demonstrate the value of the property manager comp brings to the deals and to let our investors know these are the people these are professionals they got a tech company they do all these wonderful things it's not just oh we're buying Apartments we the due diligence is so in intensive that we want to make sure we're protecting our investors money so we're going to use this as a case study and kind of walk through it so to begin with my my business partner Ricardo gets the deal finds a deal he's interested in so he underwrites it which is just a fancy word for economic analysis but even there before he puts the offer in he gets with Luke and says hey Luke here's the asset here's the financials tell me tell me what you guys do with that before we even put an offer and what do you guys do from the um underwriting perspective how do you help us out with that yeah definitely so yeah the uh the the space is pretty new so it's it's kind of funny to see this industry which is a very unique industry managing apartment properties for other people is is a pretty new industry really it came out in Mass 15 years ago 20 years ago gray star in Alliance and and Riverstone and all these companies started popping up um the the and then the industry did we didn't really know what it looked like right so so we have a we have a management company what do I do what's my what's the service I'm providing to people and it was always we're Staffing the site we're doing the construction we're always counting and all that um but on the business development side it was really in the last 10 years or so when I think it was Alliance residential I used to work there um started doing it first where they said hey we're going to build out a Biz Dev Client Services team to support owners on the front end of deals instead of during the whole period um and that really started looking like helping people get to know markets and helping them you know let's put together a comp survey and then the the pro former showed up so management Pro forma's started popping up a management company would say hey we'll also do a pro forma on the steel for you and we'll compare the two um from there it's really gone further and further so there's just there's just this in order to stay competitive in the industry third-party property vendors are just really required defensively to provide a lot of services so we're doing a lot from from Market you know uh research for groups there's a there's a reason we operate in the markets that we operate in Florida Texas and now we're in the Carolinas is because that's where we believe investment money is going to see the highest yield um so so that's the first level is what level is why we're there and talking to groups and figuring out where groups want to be and then once we've identified like Jacksonville the market you guys spend a lot of time in once we've identified that market then we'll work down into sub markets and so we have the the macro Market lever pulled and then we're looking at the sub market levels levers which sub-markets are good which are not and then on the individual deal basis we're looking at comp sets making sure that the property the business plan is going to make sense in that comp set and then we're we're really valuable we're management companies are really valuable is in the in the the micro levers so is there is there any ancillary upside is there expense saving what's the ROI if we increase our marketing dollars things that your average investor with the resources they have unless they have a huge portfolio don't have a lot of great access to so the the expense and revenue sides of the pro forma really it's best to have a management opinion just because we have so much more access to data than your average investor certainly your new investor um so like Magnolia being a great example Magnolia is in a great Market they have a renovated comp that's down the road that's really proven out the value of that renovation we know the current management Arrangement very well we were able to poke a lot of holes in things we could do better a couple bucks we could save and it all comes down to on the management side we always we talk about the value of the dollar a lot um so the value of the dollar Theory and multi-family is if you if you if you make an incremental dollar per unit per month that dollar becomes twelve dollars for that unit becomes at 200 units 240 dollars um excuse me 200 240 times 12 however a few thousand dollars and that at a five cap exit that quickly becomes 40 something thousand dollars um so those little dollar levers where most people don't want to spend a lot of time are are really demonstrating a lot of a lot of a yield and B just that that appreciation and exit value is is important so that's where we work is we're layering whatever income programs we can um whatever expense savings we can and it's it's it's so much easier for us or a management company to do that that my my advice for anybody you know we we have um great relationships but in the markets that we're not in the first thing I'll do is say someone's going to Nashville I'm like let me help you or make sure that you find a good management company who's going to spend the same time with you and make sure that they're helping you understand these same things in that market because it's it's I I just heard this the other day it's it's not how it's who right it's not how you get things done but who you have on that team helping you to do it and so you've got your lawyer and Dugan and you've got your your you know your your lender brandy or whoever it is um and then you have your management company in whatever market and pretty soon you've assembled a team of people that are really going to help you just do your job so much more easily yes yes so that's so that's just before we even sign the contract Luke and res prop takes a look at our stuff they they say okay because they're going to manage it that's what's great about you guys you take full ownership like I'm going to tell you your rents are going to go up this much or you're going to save this much in efficiencies with water conservations they've got to deliver on it so they're they're they have a vested interest to give you the best data possible to make good decisions so that's how we start with before we even um get it under contract we have res props take a look at our budget and give us all that input and like you like Luke says you dig up all these little nuggets like oh you know we could save something here in water or you could do internet or Wi-Fi and things like that little things like those or packaging um stations and things like that so first off so wonderful so that's where we've got the deal under contract res prop has signed up said Yep this is a good deal they've looked at the numbers now what's the next step what are we doing next in the in the due diligence process yeah then then I mean obviously you guys have a lot a lot going on in that time frame so really DD is what hits next and I would say with any management shop who of any scale the DD process is going to be strong but we're assembling a team of res prop employees and we're actually getting on the site we're doing a full unit walk so we're walking every unit taking an inventory of a condition but B what's in it so that when we're doing a renovation program we know what we're replacing and what we're keeping we're doing a full lease file audit looking for any discrepancies there to make sure that the financials are true when we're looking at that rent roll we do a property-wide deferred maintenance walk we do full capex we arrange vendors if you're doing pest control or sewer leaks whatever it is then we package it all up it goes into an executive summary and really for for owners and lenders that's a big thumbs up or thumbs down right is is this property what was what was sold to us is this property actually going to look like that um at that time of takeover and so that's really that 30-day window typically 30 days allows us to help really get a feel for what are we jumping into um you know from a from a time spent effort you know what kind of monster are we dealing with and then on your end obviously then that all gets put into the model so we know we have firm bids we have all of our vendors out there we've got bids we've got estimates we know exactly what the capital requirements are with the deal what's the what's the typically the biggest I want to say unexpected things usually occurs that you consistently see that okay it wasn't maybe disclosed in the seller's offering materials what's the most common I guess deferred maintenance that you run across and say okay they didn't really disclose this and this is going to be the biggest what typically do you see typically so like so when we're riding a model right click that model you're looking at you know it's an 80s deal and you're looking at renovating units and you're like I'm going to put seven thousand bucks in and it's counters paint appliances flooring um what what typically we see the most of is things in the unit that aren't a part of that Renault scope so it's going to be if it's an older deal it's going to be stab lock or fed pack panels that have to be replaced a lot of aluminum wiring out there a lot of a lot uh drainage issues piping issues Plumbing issues that wouldn't be expected so it's really the HVAC issues you know it's a lot of a lot of a lot of dirty hvacs and they're going to be they're going to be failing in Mass reaching kind of end of life so it's typically the things that you don't think of as much as being part of a renovation but that are that are popping up as part of just having an older building that you're turning so yeah those are the things I'd say that typically show up good good good okay so you do the due diligence you give us the feedback on that and we'll we'll have to adjust our underwriting based on what Luke says he'll may say you know what you're going to have to put in you know there's a roof here that you need to replace there's 100 Grand or whatever so we'll factor in that so our underwriting will change throughout the deal quite often based on what Luke and his team will come up with which is great and that's why they're so thorough the um the one of the deals that will pre-covet or whatever we were we were doing just an example of what respop does we show up to do this is a Bradenton deal that didn't go through because of covet Luke shows up with a team of what six people to walk we had like 80 some units a whole team he's got his he's got every expert you can imagine you've got the optimization person you've got I think a Six Sigma person I don't know they're a really technical analytical person he was really really impressive and then you have your construction person and you have your leasing people they read through every single lease to make sure that it's valid as it signed is when does it expire I mean it's phenomenal the amount of work you guys do just to make sure just the paperwork alone let alone the physical properties and that's one thing that's very powerful so we have a good example of okay are these one-year leases there are they two two three months month-to-month leases or whatever they are because that determines how fast we can turn them and improve the property so it's really important that we get that information from Luke and his team and then we rerun our numbers and hopefully we're still looking good so that's that's phenomenal okay so you go through do all that stuff uh we raise all the money we close the deal what does the transition look like if you haven't been managing the assets which in most cases you aren't I mean do you guys have many deals that you you're already managing and it changes hands I mean have you is that right very often or no I I I guess sometimes sometimes it's it's tough it's tough to retain management because there always has to be a new vision a new business plan and the group who's on it is the one who typically is not able to really give that new that new vision because the question is always why did you do yourselves um on our on our own properties so so for context we probably sold 40 50 deals 2019 2020 in Florida and Texas so we sold a lot we actually had a very good result in staying on the properties that we owned because we had a team our emphasis was third party we did have visions for these deals but that Vision wasn't always you know we maybe we didn't want to recap the deal and invest and really do a lot of work it was just we bought at a good basis we ran it well and now we'll leave a little bit for the next guy so having a front row seat to what that little bit was we were in a pretty good position to say hey here's exactly what we want to do in Steel here's the yield here the numbers no one else knows this deal the way we do right um so we actually had a pretty good hit rate on that so you had asked kind of what happens from DD until um takeover on our end you guys are dealing with with you know getting your lenders raising your money um placing Insurance all these things on our end it's it's incredible the number of people who are involved for a management company on a takeover um because from an owner perspective you don't see the calls we probably have 15 people touching each deal wow we've got procurement typically multiple people in procurement multiple people accounting controllers setting up bank accounts multiple marketing uh gosh uh construction facilities operations so there's there's weekly calls going on getting your deal ready for you which is we're building a budget we're getting our own vendors quoted making sure that we're every contract is being being uh reviewed to make sure it was see if we can spend money we're interviewing staff we're interviewing the existing staff or new staff we're building a new staff and kind of thesis on the property we're ordering getting everything ready for a construction project or finding that deferred maintenance budget goes over um and then yeah day one take over our goals always have systems ready all all residents are noticed we're having a conversation with them and then the goal is always if there is a renovation having that started right away not waiting two months but really doing the the pre-work on the front end and that's that's is it a differentiator yeah a lot of groups you know you're you're four months into a business plan and it's a very tight business plan because the market is tight and it's four months in you haven't renovated any units and you haven't painted the thing um that's really detrimental going back to that value of dollar right if you're if you're not burning off that loss to lease or or achieving those Renault premiums on renovated units because you don't have any that can be a big deal for our business plan so our we're always trying to be fast yes so what is it looking like uh you know over the last few years we've completed a couple apartments and we were challenged to get the renovations done either labor and materials so how are you guys managing that because I know our investors really like to know okay you say you're going to renovate you know 70 of the 227 units at Magnolia how long is that going to take and are there are you big enough that you have the cloud the infrastructure to get those so tell me a little bit more about how you guys because I know some of the smaller players that aren't working with big property managers like yourself um aren't getting things done because they get prioritized so how do you guys do that yeah so on the kind of kind of two pieces to the on the on the material side we're very proactive so our procurement team we we actually I I get I get weekly update emails talking about supply for what we did in the multi-family space so like from the last email there are still a lot of epoxies that are very hard to get so we're stockpiling specific epoxies or atoms that have these epoxies in them because there's a global shortage of these epoxies um refrigerators we have dishwashers you know ge's dishwashers around back orders so we're building we're finding alternative dishwashers so this team is doing everything on the front end because you're right if you show up on a deal it takes over October 1st and then you say I'm gonna go order these counters these appliances on October 1st you're not going to get them see if you we're constantly identifying um product and and pre-sourcing it so that we don't get stuck in that and is it perfect no because a lot of stuff here is not able to find right now um but you know we've built vendor relationships and again it's it's that proactivity versus reactivity that that's been very helpful for us and then on the on the labor side Matt labor is kind of throughout throughout the U.S economy an issue in the multi-family a huge issue so you know from from Staffing these sites it's very difficult we've got a recruiting team of seven people just trying to get people to come work on our sites because the market is so tight so you're leading with the culture first come work for us but to differentiate ourselves in that in that employer Market um and then with the trades really I mean honestly I I talk to people that's all the time it's a great time to be a Tradesman and start a trade and be accountable and there's no shortage of business for you because it's very hard to find good trades um sorry our construction and our facilities teams in every Market are constantly calling interviewing trying to find good vendors we were talking about you know Venice earlier yeah those those little tertiary markets are tough um if if I were if I were 22 years old I would I would move to the southwestern Florida coast and start a a renovation company and just do whatever I could because there's just such a shortage so yeah we have relationships from from VCS the sole Proprietors you know sometimes it's guys who have worked with us before have gone off and started their own thing in seeing their shortage and they're doing great and we know that they're reliable we can work with them um but no I mean it's it's a constant struggle is finding good people to work on these projects do you ever move people from like if you've got crew from Texas to Florida or vice versa do you have that flexibility to to move people around to work on alert projects yeah all the time so we've we okay we have both markets in in all of our markets including the Carolinas built as Standalone markets so self-contained because I don't want it to rely on a certain uh on ground support teammate tough to come in from Austin or from Dallas or from San Antonio wherever it is so we we we have redundancy in those roles in all of our markets um but yeah when push comes to shove I mean we had some of our Florida team out in San Antonio last week helping out and vice versa so yeah and that's a good thing about having multiple markets that are that are in demand markets is we've got we've got staff in either one um so yeah we do find ourselves doing that pretty pretty frequently excellent that's advantage of going with somebody big like you that it's not just a small mom-and-pop property manager in town and they've got limited resources the fact that you've got all of these experts the market experts the construction experts the optimization experts and all that and I love the fact that I know you're you're more of a strategic guy being a senior director but also you you talk about the details which I love that's what I love about you Luke it's like you you look at the high level but then you also make sure that the team is looking at the the finite stuff that okay you save ten thousand dollars a year Well you compound that by you know the cap rate and everything and you've you've saved you've increased value by you know 40 50 or 100 000 that's that I love the fact that you guys have that purview of everything it's not just one little thing and you're beyond a property manager you're like a full service you give us Consulting on the markets and the and all this stuff so that that's phenomenal it's huge value Okay so we've closed the deal you've you guys have taken it over now what's the relationship look like between so one of my partners one of the general Partners is going to be the asset manager and they're the ones that are going to work with the property manager because Luke does not want to deal with five different General Partners on Magnolia Point he wants one or maybe a two a backup you only want to deal with one or two people that's the head the lead person that's our asset manager so what does that look like how do they work with res prop going forward and what are the updates look like just talk a little bit more about that please yeah so so through through that post DD contract phase is when really my team and I are working closely with our operations team uh regional manager VP of Ops um and kind of handing off our thesis and understanding of the deal to them and then at the day of takeover owners ship transfers really ultimately for me to ultimately to that regional manager in the market so we stay involved make sure things are going well but that's when that ownership shifts to them so they obviously have fewer deals they're working on smaller portfolios they'll have a few ownership groups that will work that will work they're working with um and that works out well because they're able to have a closer eye on their deals than I would have been Jordan RVP does so really that person is the asset manager's main point of contacts is that regional manager um and then you know our goal is always weekly meetings making sure we have our weekly kpis and dashboard out so that we you know we don't want owners are interesting right some owners are so overbearing they call the property every day make sure everyone's there they'll stop by and then other owners don't exist you know they dump money and they're like I trust you to deal with it we like a middle ground we want to talk once a week at least we want to make sure that you're tracking on everything that we're tracking on that there's a good dialogue because when there isn't things can go wrong if an owner is too involved then we can't do our our work right so there's a good balance um so yeah it seems to be working out well okay well hopefully Rob and Ricardo are somewhere in the middle I think we probably are we're not like overbearing but but we want we're involved we want to make sure we're involved so what are the the key performance indicators that you guys are looking at what are the key numbers on a weekly basis that our asset manager is looking at with you guys yeah I mean so so you know the the main metrics are uh residents what are they doing are we are we touring are we signing leases um are we are people moving out if so where are they going and and from that data you get so many more points all right so if they're if they're if people are renewing you know for renewing 80 of our of our tenants well maybe maybe our rents are too low our renewal Institute low we're not freeing up enough units to renovated for renovating so then there's all these levers that come from behind that which is part of the conversation is here are those key metrics and here's here's how that affects our business plan so it could be a price adjustment could be um you know something we're going to change of how we're marketing marketing more marketing less um so there's there's a there's a lot of discussion that's built out of those and beyond that really distracting like key expense numbers are are we keeping expenses in control collections has been a huge one right collections has been enormous so Collections and evictions exist on every property so making sure that we're tracking those and that there's a solid business plan behind any any delinquency or evictions are being taken care of swiftly so you know it always comes from qualitative and the conversation ends with a quantitative output excellent what do you see like the retention rate on average just ballpark that people that renew their leases is there what's I don't even know I should know the answer to that like what's the number is it 30 is it 50 on average it's historically 50. historically 50 it went up a little bit in Coven and it's actually stayed pretty high for the most part uh but typically the target is 50 because you want you really want to have new tenants coming in paying those new rents and then but you don't want to be turning all so so 50 is a good number 50 to 60 I think is a good Target anything above that and you're probably not pushing hard enough anything below that and something's off people are going somewhere for a specific reason do they not feel safe do they not feel like their apartment it's nice enough the amenities are nice enough do they is there a better option down the road that's that's undercutting you whatever may be is it marketing um so yeah it's uh I'd say 50 to 50 to 60 is where I'd like to see them okay that's pretty good that's pretty reasonable and um I'm going to follow the question of that and I forgot because I was listening to you um what was it oh moving from and I know this happens a little bit so we're renovating units in the and how many people jump from one unit to another if it's renovated is that as is that like do is that key people or not or are you pretty much getting a new clientele when you renovate and the rents go up a couple hundred bucks what did you see typically when you're when you have classic units and you have renovated units typically the person who's already there they're already in their unit they don't want to move they're comfortable they've gotten used to their unit so you don't you don't see a lot of people who choose to jump from a classic to A Renault on the same property typically those renovated units are largely going to be rented by new tenants gotcha that's okay and the new tenant is more likely to rent the renovated unit than the classic unit obviously depending on numbers that renovate needs to be more attracted to somebody who's new to the property yeah typically we're going to be we're not going to really offer a lot of classic units typically unless we're behind in the Renault for you know supplies and things like that then okay okay those are all I think is there anything else okay our case study Magnolia you've walked us through the you guys are involved before we even make the offer you guys are involved and you give us the thumbs up or thumbs down because I know you guys will say you know what I we even this is The Testament for how good you guys are this was years and years ago my partner had was using a different property manager and I wasn't really happy without it so I went to you and you gave it you took a look at the Proform and said Matt no there's a so I went back to the other property management listen this is what we need to do so I you guys are that good it's like and now of course you you're we're locked and loaded with you guys you're a write and die you guys are fabulous but I know early on we were using somebody else we'd already before we kind of discovered you it was like and you guys still gave us took the time to give us the pro forma and you knew the market better than the other company did and that's why we felt like okay we really need to get your opinion you guys just were so forthright and just giving us their it was really good it worked out well we've recently sold those properties but but it was partly because of you guys that gave us some additional input so we appreciate that I appreciate it yeah anything else you want to share about uh rest prop or anything no you know we we try to be honest and fourth right and actually some something I'm going through right now which I think it makes a lot of sense in this conversation is I I've actually been I've I've traditionally been an equities guy uh you know I've been spent a lot of time in the stock market um and then lately I've been having a lot of trouble right so I'm thinking where do I put my money stock market's been really interesting lately I bought a few Bitcoins recently um I know you're into crypto so I was like I'll put some money into crypto I I've actually it's funny having worked in multi-family I've been in traditional multi for I don't know four five five years now um before that I was doing some senior stuff and some some multi-finance um I've actually kind of found myself coming full circle and as I was looking I was like okay I'm not super interested in a lot of like the equities markets I don't want to buy a ton of Bitcoin because I still don't understand what it is I've actually found myself circling back to multi I kind of solved my own my own question with what I do because because multi you know the economy is in an interesting place right now and I know I know Capital has been kind of interesting but um multi has been really strong and and looking at these deals like Magnolia that's like a it's a multi-lever deal I'm like these are these are great deals this is this looks a lot better than the other Alternatives so I've been throwing some money and some deals that we've been just looking at um so it is a good time it's scary to get it to multi so I always tell people you know find a couple of sponsors you like and throw a little money into each so you can learn from them and kind of start seeing like the things we're talking about looking for those different levers seeing what your what your lead sponsor is doing um but yeah I mean just a note it's funny um the the Market's been a little more bottle a little tighter um but I still found myself coming back to it um kind of personally so it's a it's a good time to be in multi I think that the industry is going to do really well um and that is this is a dude who you know invests money not as a guy who works in the industry um but no seeing seeing guys like you and Ricardo and all the think group we've worked with um having the outcomes they've had on properties it's like man if you can find a good sponsor that you really trust and do deals with you can you can do really well so it's been it's been a lot of fun seeing that excellent excellent and you know it's always interesting to talk to um commercial brokers the people that we buy the properties to and you'll ask do you invest in multi-family or I don't think I've met one that invest I'm getting okay you're selling these 40 million dollar properties you're not investing you're not part owner it's surprising that so but you're an example of somebody that okay I know this business I know it really well I don't understand Bitcoin but you bought some which is good because I think someday that's gonna be worth tons but anyways but you're saying going back to something you really know and understand and you guys do you are see you are our secret sauce to why we're successful in a lot of our deals the deals that you guys manage for us and so I think that's great that you know good testimony is that some of your money out of Wall Street and put it into Main Street in apartments like this particularly investing it's it's you sign a piece of paper and wire some money and you're done I mean and then then it's your job to make us money Luke and you do it that's right then it comes down to us then it comes down to us okay well we're coming to the end I've got um a rapid fire five these are fun questions okay okay just what comes to your answer in your head okay what's well this is a simple and you know this one what city do you live in today I live in Bradenton Florida that wasn't easy that was a gaming okay what's your vacation favorite vacation spot I know you and your wife love to travel so what's that oh man so I've got my my map back here of all the places I love um Italy is hard to beat and I there are three or four countries in Africa that I could just go back to over and over again probably namely Uganda what's your favorite City what's your favorite in Italy what's favorite City traditionally I'm a Florence guy but we had so much fun in Rome it was my third time in Rome uh we went back in June we had so much fun in Rome so much fun in Florence we were on the Amalfi Coast you can't go wrong with anything in Italy it's the whole country is just so beautiful it is it's fabulous great okay um are you a morning person or a night owl I am I'm both I am I'm a morning person because I have to be I'm a night owl because I like to be okay so your natural tendency you're a night owl okay I know that's why I liked you Luke that's okay very good if you could eat only one food for the rest of your life what food would that be uh rib eye steak and like a rice pilaf and some broccoli you sound like a midwesterner though that's a Midwestern meal that's something I would love okay I'm from Colorado there's a lot of good meat in Colorado yeah that's true that's true okay the final question um what song would you sing at karaoke night what song would I sing at karaoke night a buddy and I did uh the song from Greece summer loving I was I was John Travolta and he was um so I'll go down I love that that is one of my favorite movies too my wife and I probably seen it 50 times and it was so it was it hurt a little bit when Olivia Newton John passed away a week or two ago so wonderful wonderful well Luke it's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show I really appreciate it and I appreciate what you do in the value you bring to myself my business partners and all of our investors you are incredible and your company is wonderful can't give enough gift props for res props so how can how can people get in contact with you and your your Biz yeah yeah so uh I'm on LinkedIn uh Luke Lyons there's an easy way to connect with me and then uh on our website I should be on there but my email is l-l-e-i-n-s at um so yeah anybody who's curious or just wants to chat I I'd like talking about real estate you mentioned me still being involved in deals I I'm involved in deals because I like the people I get to work with and I like still talking about real estate um so yeah very uh very open to chat and markets talking about whatever um so yeah no no hesitation please reach out excellent his contact information will be in our show notes as well so I want to make sure you can you have access to this excellent Talent here so thanks again Luke I really really appreciate your time have a great day my pleasure we'll talk to you soon and that's a wrap thank you for listening to better returns brought to you by Hanson Holdings if you enjoyed this episode please leave a five star review because it helps others discover this valuable content if you would like to earn truly hands-off passive income go to where we help you invest in large apartment complexes to grow your family's wealth see you next week with another awesome episode have a great day